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The Devil’s Work
The Devil’s work.~ Pope Francis aka Jorge Mario Bergoglio (born:1936-12-17 age:79) describing gay marriage
I think we are inviting God’s judgement on our nation when we shake our fist at him and say we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage.~ Dan Cathy (born:1953-03-01 age:63), president Chick Fil-A
Mr. Cathy is confusing the god Jehovah and Leviticus — the weird old duck who hates gays and almost everyone else. Mr. Cathy is trying to impose the unsubstantiated religious bigotry of his sect of fundamentalist Christianity on the entire nation, which honours freedom of religion. He discriminates against gay employees and lobbies for gay inequality and banning equal marriage for gays. He has zero right to impose his religion on others. He has repeatedly, in many different ways, tried to shove his religion down the throats of his employees. He is a deeply evil man who imagines he is profoundly virtuous. Chick Fil-A is a greasy chicken fast food chain. Its chicken nuggets are is rated as the least healthful fast food in the USA, which is indicative of Mr. Cathy’s true moral character.
Gays and Hurricanes
First of all I’m a registered Republican, I only seem liberal because I believe hurricanes are caused by high barometric pressure instead of gay marriage.~ Will McAvoy (born:1955-02-19 age:61) played by Jeff Daniels
God Did Not Create Marriage
Marriage is not God created, dummy. It’s a tradition, a milestone in every relationship, which might be met or not. Let that be a relationship between two heterosexuals or homosexuals. Clear?~ i Pluto
Right to Misery
Gay people got a right to be as miserable as everybody else.~ Chris Rock (born:1965-02-07 age:51) on gay marriage
All Marriage is Good
Marriage is good for society. It reduces promiscuity. It encourages people to look after each other. It creates financial stability. It is the first line for health care. It encourages people to eat proper meals. It provides for survivors without putting a burden on the welfare system. It provides a stable environment to raise kids. It makes people feel relaxed, trusting, stable and cared for. The reasons it is good for women are the same ones it is good for men. For the same reasons it is good for straight people, it is also good for gay ones.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
When Target donated $100 million to anti-gay marriage candidates, its customers let them know in no uncertain terms that was not acceptable. It cost them so much they have backed off. Corporations are mindless. They will do whatever makes the most money. It is up to us to guide them by withholding money when they misbehave and rewarding them when they behave. They respond like giant retarded children.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
In general, most societies were fairly tolerant of homosexuality until the Christians came along (e.g. India). Christians poisoned Africa. Where I live in British Columbia, Canada, the problem is/was almost exclusively Christian. There was also some Sikh violence against gays. You never see Jews doing it, even though their book started it all. Muslims are a minority so do not throw their weight around. Secular society here is completely supportive. We have marriage equality here. The objections to gays being permitted to marry or even exist are invariably couched in fundamentalist Christian terms. I see such arguments as automatically invalid. You can’t impose your unsubstantiated nutty religious superstitions on others with force of law. That is what freedom of religion is for. You have no more right to do that forcing people to observe religious ceremonies, like making burnt offerings, throwing virgins in volcanoes or circumcising your male and/or female children. You could legitimately argue against gay marriage, but you would have talk about real cost/benefits to society, not mad rantings about what some invisible man on a cloud would prefer.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Being a Judge
Imagine what it would be like to be a chief justice. You are elderly, conservative, Christian, a part of the establishment. You are being asked to rule on gay marriage an issue that deeply divides the country. No matter how you rule, there will be people calling for your head. Whatever you decide, you will need iron-clad legal reasons for it. I imagine you might rule like this:
~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
- DOMA (Defence Of Marriage Act) goes because the constitution says that marriage is a state issue. The feds have no business meddling. The same conservative Christians who want DOMA will also find this argument convincing. You then don’t have to rule one way or the other on the legitimacy of gay marriage.
- Even Christian bigots may think it is wrong to cheat someone out of money, e.g. being forced to pay into a pension then not being allowed to get benefits, or being forced to pay estate taxes others do not have to pay. So insist that gay people have the same legal rights as married straights. Leave it up to states what to call these relationships civil unions, common law marriages, gay marriages, gay unions, legal marriages, civil marriages etc. Ideally, states will choose the same term for a non-church marriage for both same sex and mixed sex marriages. You sidestep the emotional-charged issue of status and official terminology. Christians primarily are opposed to gays terming their unions marriage because that implies equality and because they see gays marrying as some sort of ritual pollution. Gays want their unions to be officially called marriage to ensure full equality. They are very wary of the notion of separate but equal. In practice, people will call themselves and each other whatever they please. It not so much a matter of marriage, but that gay people must be held equal before the law, in all matters, including pair bonding, a stance oddly more palatable to Christians than permitting gay marriage. Your arguments would echo those of the black civil rights rulings, citing the 14th Amendment. You would point out that equal protection applies to everyone, even unpopular or sinful people. Who can argue against that? Christians strongly don’t want to give up hating gays. Don’t imply by your ruling that they have to. So long as they can continue to feel superior, they will be happy.
Benefits of Bigotry
The religious right gain nothing by denying civil rights to gay people, especially the right to marry. It will not affect them in the least. Gays won’t suddenly start attending their bigoted churches. Their churches have the legal right to refuse to perform any marriage for any even bigoted reason. Their motive is traditional spite. For hundreds of years, the Christian churches have used gay people as their official scapegoat. Just as they dropped using blacks as an official scapegoat, they should drop using gays. No one, not gays, not blacks, not Muslims, not Hispanics, not children… should have to put up with religion-excused abuse.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Bigotry Drives Opposition to Gay Marriage
What is this opposition to gay marriage about really? Christians no longer have uppity niggers to look down on so they have taken to looking down on gays and feeling superior. They can feel superior no matter how uneducated, stupid, ugly, fat or bigoted they are. Without the assumed pariahood of gays, they would see themselves as they truly are, the ultimate losers. As Leonard Sidney Woolf observed, There is nothing to which men cling more tenaciously than the privileges of class.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Bigots’ Objections to Gay Marriage
It is against my religionFine. Don’t marry someone of the same sex. Your religious rules apply only to people of your religion. You are not permitted by law to force your religious beliefs on non-believers. While it is true Leviticus calls for killing gays, it also calls for killing people for hundreds of other reasons. It does not say to stop gays from marrying, it says to kill them. You are not even following your own religion. Modern bigots totally ignore these other required murders partly because they have never read the bible cover to cover. What gives them the right to cherry pick just this one sin? They pick it to magnify solely because it is one they rarely commit. In Matthew 7:3 Jesus told bigots to see to their own sins, not those of gay people. Bigots spit in Jesus’s face.
My dictionary says marriages is between a man and a womanYou have an older dictionary. The people who write dictionaries define words by checking how ordinary people use them. This argument amounts to We have treated gay people unfairly for centuries, so that tradition must be upheld. That same argument was used to perpetuate slavery, segregation and the subjugation of women.
It ain’t naturalBeing gay is quite common. There are more gays than left-handed people. Dr. Bruce Bagemihl in his book Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity documents homosexuality in 400 species. Because it occurs in nature, it is natural. That is what the word means. Perhaps you just mean it makes you feel icky. It is not as though anyone is asking you to be in the same room with a gay person. So that objection is really irrelevant. Just stop interfering with things that do not concern you. If the gay couple living next door got married, you would have no way of knowing it happened. Your objection is 100% pure spite. It does not concern you in the least. You are a meddling old fart. By the way, the heterosexual pornography in every advertisement pushed on us gays all the time is icky too.
Marriage is only for procreationIf that were so, we would not allow the elderly, the barren or those do did not plan on having kids to marry. Further, gay couples can have kids. They can adopt. They can include kids from a previous heterosexual relationship, and they can use a bewildering array of reproductive technology. If you ban gay marriage, the alternative is for unmarried couples to adopt. This fails to provide the same degree of stability.
It is bad for childrenScience has found out what is bad for children is single-parent families. What is good for children is two-parent families. It turns out it does not matter what sexes the parents are. Bigots imagine having gay parents as a role model will make kids gay. It turns out this does not happen. You get the same proportion of gay and straight kids from gay or straight parents. This may seem a surprising result. However, consider that almost every homosexual in the world was raised by heterosexual parents. Bigots, without any evidence, claim that gay males are likely to sexually molest children. The science says that most pedophiles are heterosexual fathers. Why would this be? Gay men are attracted to male characteristics: tall, muscles, deep voices, well-hung cowboy types. Straight men are attracted to female characteristics: smooth skin, short, high pitched voices, light musculature, flexible, no body or facial hair. Are children closer to the heterosexual ideal or the gay ideal?
Bigots just like a scapegoat. They like to have someone they can feel superior to no matter what losers they are and be nasty to for no reason, and have that cruelty sanctioned by their peers. They will make up any stupid excuse to keep doing it because being a bastard feels so good.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Bogus Arguments Against Gay Marriage
Religious bigots oppose marriage equality ostensibly on because gay couples cannot have children. This argument is fallacious on many grounds:
~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
- Many mixed sex couples never have children and never intend to have children. This does not invalidate their marriages.
- Mixed sex couples where the woman is past menopause can marry. They will never have children.
- Women who have had their tubes tied or men with vasectomies can marry. They will never have children.
- Women or men using birth control can marry. They will likely never have children.
- Women or men carrying genetic diseases can marry. They will likely avoid having children.
- Gay people sometimes have children from prior mixed marriages.
- Gay people can adopt.
- Gay people can use surrogate parents male or female.
Bogus Sex Addiction
People to admit to a sex addiction are first and foremost people who have allowed busybodies with low sex drive to dictate to them how they should behave. If they did not promise monogamy or chastity, for the most part, there would be no problem.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
The unbelievable stupidity of Christian bigots never ceases to amaze me.
For example, one old preacher wanted to round up all gays and put them in a concentration camp and starve them to death. This would be his final solution. There would be no more gays on earth. Where does he think gays come from? Gays are born to heterosexual parents.
A woman wanted to block gay marriage because she did not want there to be so many gay people. By what arcane biology does she imagine that gay marriage creates more gay people?
An old fart did not approve of gay people having sex. He felt that banning gay marriage would put an end to gay sex. That is quite naïve. Single gay people have more sex that married ones.
A twit did not want married gays bringing more baby gays into the world. Reproductive technology always produces the same ratio of gay and straight children. When gay couples have children, most of the time they will turn out straight.
A Christian argued the purpose of marriage is raising children, so gays should be excluded. That is not true. We allow the elderly, the barren and those who do not want children to marry. Further, many gay couples do want to have children. That is mainly why they want to get married.
A biddy worried an earthquake would swallow her up if gay marriage were approved. She ignored the fact 23 countries long ago approved gay marriage and so such thing happened.
Basically Christians are hateful bastards, and they will make up any absurd excuse for their hatred.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Christians insist that same sex couples should not be allowed to marry because Jehovah the god does not approve. That is their religious belief, their irrational religious belief. Fine, let Christian same sex couples avoid marriage. Let Christians condemn same sex couples from the pulpit. Let Christians argue law using non-religious objections to marriage equality. But, please Christians, stop trying to force your nutty religious superstitions on non-believers. It is as wrong as Muslims forcing you to eat only Halal food or you trying to force everyone to take communion. We have freedom of religion in this country and that includes freedom from yours. Denying gay people equal rights for religious reasons is just a wrong as denying black people rights for religion as Christians did a generation ago.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Homophobic Christians are vigilantes. They failed in lobbying for laws to persecute homosexuals, (with the exception of gay marriage) so they take the law into their own hands and act as judge and executioner. What really annoys me is the way the imagine they are so profoundly virtuous and more moral than everyone else for doing so.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
People are often disturbed the way I lump all Christians as though they were a monolithic bigoted force opposing gay rights, in particular gay marriage. In my gay lib days, each day, for years, I received an average of 350 abusive phone calls and 3 death threats from Christians. Compassionate Christians never called. I have only met a handful of unspiteful Christians in my whole life. Christianity makes the majority of people it touches less compassionate, the opposite of its P.R. It makes them more judgemental and conceited. One research paper I read quantified it as embracing Christianity improved the behaviour of 1/3 of the people and deteriorated the behaviour of 2/3. Christianity is the source of nearly all the cruelty and spite against gays. It is core to Christian religious beliefs and church teaching. It blinds Christians allowing them to behave toward gays in ways they would not dream of treating a dog. They don’t see what they are doing as evil, criminal or even spiteful. Compassionate Christians have rejected the core teachings of their churches, so properly speaking are not Christian any more. Christian and the offshoot Muslims are the source of all the hatred against gays on the planet. This hatred is one of the defining characteristics of those two religions. It is completely hypocritical for someone to call themselves a Christian or a Muslim and deny it. It is as ridiculous as a Nazi trying to deny his part creating hatred for Jews. Pope Francis leads the charge with his claim gay marriage is the work of the devil. There is almost no other source for this hatred other than the Abrahamic trio of religions — Christianity, Islam and Judaism.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Encouraging Bad Behaviour
Homophobic Christians cite bogus facts about gays dying of hideous diseases and not living long. I could cite counter examples. However, it is true that a promiscuous life style with unprotected sex or drug use necessarily invites disease. Promiscuity and drug use are not the same thing as homosexuality. These bigots work ceaselessly to encourage gays to be promiscuous, denying marriage and persecuting them so they dare not live together openly and monogamously. What hypocrites!~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Forbidding Gays To Marry is Unconstitutional
The American constitution forbids congress from making any law concerning religion, but they went ahead anyway and the majority Christian population let them get away with it. Examples include:
~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
- Churches get a special tax exemption that equivalent secular organisations do not.
- Soldiers can get an exemption from military service on religious grounds where there is no equivalent exception for atheists.
- Gay marriage is forbidden in most of the USA. This is a Christian religious superstition imposed on the entire population.
- National holidays correspond with Christian religious festivals and are even officially named after them.
Fuck the Constitution
Sarah Palin argues against gay marriage on the grounds the judiciary should not be able to undo the will of the people as expressed in a referendum. This would be quite a sweeping change for the USA, abolishing the constitution and the federal judiciary responsible for interpreting/enforcing it. The whole point of the constitution is to override the majority will of the people, especially when it rashly tries to trample the civil rights of unpopular citizens. Palin is such an airhead, I suspect she does not even understand the implications of what she just called for.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Gay Marriage History
Conservative Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito claims that gay marriage is too new to rule on. Professor Rachel Hope Cleves has a book coming out soon from Oxford University Press called Sylvia and Charity: A Same-Sex Marriage in Early America about a same-sex marriage in Vermont from 1807 to 1851. Same sex marriages are a long-standing tradition in America, going back even before the European invasion.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Gay Marriage vs Traditional Marriage
Gay marriage is not anti traditional marriage. It celebrates its values of commitment and fidelity. It just extends traditional marriage to people who have been heretofore foolishly excluded. It has absolutely no effect on those who oppose it. They interfere purely out of religiously fueled spite, out of a desire to put gays down, to treat them as second class citizens.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Gender Equality ⇒ Gay Marriage
Gay marriage rights follow naturally from gender equality. Anything a man is allowed to do, so should a woman. Anything a woman is allowed to do, so should a man. In particular, since men are allowed to marry women, women should be allowed to marry women. Since women are allowed to marry men, men should be allowed to marry men.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Since 2004 in the USA, support for gay marriage has grown from 37% to 53%. In 2013 it is 58%. This is very rapid. Almost all young people support legal gay marriage. It will happen inevitably when a sufficient number of the older bigots die off.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
I find it astounding that Christians are so willing to publicly expose themselves for the hateful, petty bigots they are. For example:
- They claim allowing gays to marry would tantamount to allowing dogs to marry. It would sully the institution. They are asserting gays are not human and as such do not deserve human rights. This is the old Nazi argument.
- They claim it is wrong to protect gay children, or children who are suspected may grow up to be gay, from being bullied. They assert children should be taught in school to bully gay children. They claim that all attempts to block such bullying show disrespect for Christian religious rights and should not be tolerated.
- Christian parents claim they should have the right to block a same-sex partner from visiting their terminally ill child in hospital. Christian parents should also have the right to exclude the same-sex partner from the funeral. If gays were permitted to marry, that would interfere with parental Christian duties to make gays miserable.
- Some go so far as to claim that tolerating the presence of a gay person is a guaranteed ticket to eternal torment. They just made that up.
There is no practical reason to block gay marriage. It is simply an expression of hate and spite, a way to put gays in a one-down position, much the way Christians used to put down blacks.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
How Gay Marriage Ruins the Lives of Christians
Just how do these crazy Christians imagine that gay marriage could possibly affect them? Do they think we will run out of wedding cakes?~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Imposing Gay Marriage
When the supreme court of the USA legalised same sex marriage, it legalised the civil institution of marriage. The constitution prevented it from saying anything at all about religious marriage. So nothing was imposed on Christians. Absolutely nothing changed for them. Unless they have gay friends, they would not be able to tell the difference. Yet the Christian nitwits squeal like pigs complaining some satanic religion is being imposed on them and that they are being forced to accept gay marriage. They don’t have to accept gay marriage. They are as free as ever to scold and disapprove. The goofuses act as though they were being told they can only marry someone of the same sex. The only restriction on their freedom is they may not interfere in same sex weddings they were not invited to.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
The Christian opposition to gay marriage is irrational. It does not in the least concern them. They are meddling where they have no right to interfere:
- It is not as though gays are even asking, much less demanding, that the churches perform marriage ceremonies.
- It is not as though gays are demanding Christians marry someone of the same sex.
- It is not as though gays are demanding Christians attend gay weddings or buy them wedding presents.
- It is not as though gays are demanding that florists, caterers, musicians, hotels, hall rentals, airlines, limo services, honeymoon vacation spots etc. accept the extra business.
Christians won’t be able to tell the difference, other than reduced social costs from promiscuity.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Jews vs Christians
Jews have some pretty strange ideas about cooking. They offer their excellent cuisine to the world, but you would never catch a Jew with a meat cleaver in someone else’s kitchen threatening them for eating pork or putting some chipped beef into a cream sauce. Christians, on the other hand, insist on imposing their religious superstitions on others, such as beating up gays, blocking gays from marriage, unconstitutional prayer to Jehovah and unconstitutional religious tests for public office. It is a wonder they don’t demand human and animal sacrifice as their old testament commands.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
People normally fight for their self interest. They want better pensions, better schools, better working conditions, lower taxes, better protection from criminals, freedom to do as they please… But the bigots who fight gay marriage are fighting purely out of malice, to make others’ lives miserable. They have nothing to gain. Whether gays can marry or not has no effect whatsoever on the bigots’ lives.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Marriage is About Commitment
Sane people marry the person they love, not the one others tell them to. They marry the person they want to be with a lifetime, not the person whose sexual plumbing fits best. Christians are so obsessed with physical plumbing and propagation, that they miss the entire point of marriage, lifetime commitment. Christians offer gays the choice of marrying those they do not love or living alone in celibacy their entire lives. Christians, are like meddling East Indian parents who think they have a right to arrange other people’s marriages for them. Butt out you meddling Christian loons. We gays are adults and have every right to make our own decisions.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Marriage is for Monogamy
Christian bigots who oppose gay marriage contradict themselves. Marriage is the most potent tool to encourage monogamy. By opposing gay marriage, the bigots are pro-promiscuity and pro-AIDS.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Michele Bachmann whines that gay marriage is being imposed on her. Really? How is who she marries or whether she marries changed in the least? She is the one who wants to impose her religious views on others. She wants to have a veto on other people’s choice of partner based on her religious superstitions. She does not believe in freedom of religion. She wants to dictate religious her religious beliefs on everyone.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
I heard Newt Gingrich, famous Christian homophobic bigot, disgraced Republican and proffered presidential candidate rail against gay marriage using these three arguments:
- Judicial fiat (determining constitutionality) changed several thousand years of Christian tradition and history.
- It’s a profound mistake for judges to engage in social engineering.
- Giving gays the right to marry would be a broad public experiment.
Those arguments applied equally well to the abolishment of slavery, giving renters the vote, giving women the vote and the end of segregation. Those are the standard excuses of the privileged for refusing to grant equal status to a subjugated group or to oppose any change they resist for purely emotional reasons.
Gay couples have been raising children for decades. Scientists have studied those families and discovered the kids do just as well as children of mixed-sex couples and better than single parent families.
Denmark has allowed gay marriages since 1989. If something terrible happens when a county permits gay marriages, surely we would have heard of it by now since so many countries have already granted the right to marry to gays. The USA, in granting equal rights, would hardly be treading on unknown territory or performing some rash experiment. The USA is backward among developed nations in its delay in granting full equality to gays. It is mired in Christian superstition and myth more than any other developed country.
Newt Gingrich, like many Fundamentalist Christian Americans, believes it is the government’s job to impose Christian beliefs, values and superstitions on the general public, including its hysterical hatred of homosexuals (and blacks up until recently) and the belief in the inferiority of women. The American constitution makes quite clear this is not the government’s function. To the contrary, the government’s job is protecting people from Christians (or other fanatics) trying to force their religion down the throats of others. The founding fathers saw the bloodshed in Europe between religious factions. They were determined to make it safe to hold any religious beliefs imaginable in their new country.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Objection is Religious
The objection to gay marriage is purely religious. It is an attempt to use the law to impose religious superstitions on non-believers. It is a violation of freedom of religion. It is in principle no different than using the law to enforce circumcision or attending mass. Christians historically have been big on scapegoats: Samaritans, Jews, blacks and now gays. Christians get a perverse pleasure out of forcing gays into second class status. They enjoy blocking a gay couple from visiting in hospital. They enjoy excluding a gay partner from a funeral. They enjoy claiming gays are subhuman and hence have no right to marry, even though those marriages would have zero effect on Christians. This is simple spite. You would think Christians would be ashamed to be so blatant about their petty cruelties.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
I think a pre-nup is a great idea.
At divorce, without a pre-nup, the couples want to be as unfair and unreasonable as possible to punish their partner. This is expensive and grueling. At marriage, creating a pre-nup, the couples want to be as fair and reasonable as possible.
Further, a pre-nup helps filter out a gold-digger who is just feigning affection.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Reasons To Support Gay Marriage
~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
- There are thousands of children waiting for adoption, some with special needs. Gay marriage creates a whole new set of parents for these kids.
- Couples that otherwise would not have been married will now be joined to support each other for better or worse. If a partner supports a disabled partner, then the state does not have to.
- It is a simple matter of civil rights. It is wrong to deny someone civil rights just because some spiteful bigots do not like them. Everyone should be treated equally.
- It is wrong to allow a cult to imposes its nutty ideas about untouchability on non-believers. It just encourages them.
Religion May Not Veto Rights
There is something deeply unfair and absurd about a society that insists that every discussion about civil rights, (e.g. euthanasia, gay marriage … ) has to have religious fundamentalist bigot on the panel for balance, even when that bigot cannot muster even a single fact to support his view. Yet evangelists may make the most hateful, absurd, fallacious and fraudulent claims from the pulpit without anyone invited or permitted to dispute them.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
The Republicans in Texas have not only banned gay marriage, they are calling for making it a felony to perform a gay marriage and for making sodomy (a generic term for anything but the missionary position between heterosexuals) illegal. Know your enemies and do what it takes to defeat them at the polls.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
On 2011-06-22 Senator Ball said a strange thing. His religion strongly condemns homosexuals, therefore that gives him the right to deny gay people the same rights as straights, e.g. being able to collect pensions they have paid into and marriage. The constitution guarantees freedom of religion. This means no religion may use force to impose its religious beliefs on others. In particular, Christians are not permitted to impose their superstitions about gays on gays. So far, the courts have failed to enforce the constitution. Polls are irrelevant when it comes to civil rights.
There is great scrambling to ensure New York churches may continue to spew hate speech and exclude gays even after gay marriage is permitted. That is probably their right. It was also their right to exclude blacks from church during the time of desegregation. However, in secular life, discrimination has to go. Christianity is no excuse. Neither is it a valid excuse for treating blacks badly which they originally claimed they were obligated to do. In a decade or so the churches that continue to harass gays will look as backward as those that refused blacks into the congregation at the time of desegregation.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Two Parents are Better than One
Science says two parents are better than one. It also says the genders of the parents do not matter. But even if mixed sex parents were better were better than same sex, how is denying some kids any parents supposed to make things better? Just because you ban same sex parents does not magically create replacement mixed sex ones.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
Tyranny of the Majority
Modern democracies have constitutionally guaranteed freedom of religion. This has two purposes, to ensure the government does not interfere with your religious beliefs, and to stop other people from using the government to impose their religious beliefs on you by force. Christians are in the majority so manage to run roughshod over the religious constitutional rights of others and nobody says boo about this violation of law. They shamelessly use the government to impose their barbaric superstitions about gay people. They manage to institutionalise discrimination, particularly in banning gay marriage and banning sexual acts between people of the same sex.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
I heard Wendy Wright, president of Concerned Women of America argue against gay marriage using the oddest, most irrational reasons. For example, she argued it would be wrong to allow gay marriage because it would be preferable for children to have straight parents. This makes no sense:
- Scientific evidence shows that children raised by same sex couples do just as well as those raised by mixed-sex couples. Two-parent families work better than single parent families.
- Even if you accept the argument it would be preferable for there to be more straight couples to adopt children, banning gay marriage will not create any more of straight couples.
- It is certainly better for a child to have a same sex couple for parents than no parents at all. The scientific literature is unequivocal on this. Obviously, gay marriage will create more such couples.
Basically Ms. Wright hates gays for religious reasons, thinks they are ritually unclean, thinks she is superior and wants gays to stay in their place, much the way her bigoted ancestors wanted blacks kept in their place.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:68)
You can sell your shares of Starbucks and buy shares in another company.~ Howard Schultz (born:1953-07-19 age:63) CEO (Chief Executive Officer) of Starbucks to bigot Tim Wildmon president of the American Family Association who is calling for a boycott of Starbucks because Starbucks supported the gay marriage bill in Washington state. source
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