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Israel: I cannot believe it


Here is an email I received in response to one of my essays.

Israel: I cannot believe it : Charles Pedley : pressing4truth@gmail.com : 2008-04-30

I stumbled across your site while searching for an invoicing program.

I cannot believe the stance you take on various issues. Typically stereotyped liberal leftist, unfortunately.

Most my writings on Israel are embarrassing quotes from prominent Israeli politicians. Do you claim these are fakes?

Did not read everything, so I may be wrong but I read enough to know that you have opinions on many topics and facts on few.

I am not Jewish but your bit on Israel is so opposite to the truth where in 2008 anti-Jewish sentiment reigns so supreme in Canada that Sid Ryan, Lemelin from CUPW (Canadian Union of Postal Workers) are all about boycotting Israel because they are the big ugly meanies.

I see you bought into this too and all the fantasies about who 9/11 was caused by.

I note that you offer no evidence or arguments to counter what I have to say, just a lame ad hominem logical fallacy.

You must be intelligent or you could not create what you have. Unfortunately, you seem as blind to the truth as you think many of the groups that you criticize are.

So here is an effort that may prove futile but it is always worthwhile to tell the truth.

Israel

  1. Israel is the only country that has ever had a government in Israel or Palestine. There never was a Palestinian Palestine. The word was invented I believe by the British when they governed the area.

    That sounds like a Talmudic bit of lawyering. Who did you pick that up from, Allan Dershowitz? The Muslims lived in the area for hundreds of years. That is pretty solid title. I lived on Quadra Island where there was no local government. That did not give anyone the right to barge in and steal our homes.

  2. Arabs, Muslims who live in Israel have the same rights and benefits as Israelis. So why did some leave? They were not driven out. It was their choice to leave.

    Cough. Same as Poles chose to leave Poland when Hitler invaded.

    Some stayed and have enjoyed the privilege of living in the only democratic country in the Middle East. [Do you know the laws of salvage on the sea? If you leave your ship, a salvage operator can claim it and tow it wherever he wants and sell it or the parts.]

    You seem to have the odd notion the area was vacant and the Jews just moved in. The Muslims put up quite a fight. Surely you have seen some of the old newsreels. Israeli politicians used to brag about what they did in that initial war of occupation.

    (The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers… heads smashed against the boulders and walls.
    ~ Yitzhak Shamir (born:1915-10-15 died:2012-06-30 at age:96) Prime Minister of Israel 19831982, in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times 1988-04-01
  3. There have been many owners of Israel as you can see from the wiki.

    IRRC, I researched this some time ago and discovered there were over 20 groups. However, the Muslims have been there for hundreds of years, considerably longer than Europeans have occupied North America. Further, the Ashkenazy Jews never occupied the region. Their bogus claim is based on a religious Hitlerian myth of being the master race, God’s chosen people. With the founding of the UN (United Nations) countries agreed to freeze national boundaries. Even though the UN gave the invasion its blessing, it was illegal by the UN ’s own charter.

    So giving back would mean finding the original owners, not the last owners, possibly Canaanites and giving their property back to them.

    No. The UN was formed in 1946. That’s when the boundaries were frozen. This is why Tibet also has a claim to regain inedependence by international law.

    But is that the way the world works? No! It is recognized that what is taken in war belongs to the victors.

    That was the way of it prior to 1946. However, that’s not the law now. Granted the USA (and its puppet state Israel) thumbs routinely violates all manner of treaties it has signed.

    Ancient history. Current reality. Only if a country wishes, f course, it may give back, but not a requirement. Or all over the world, we would all have to do likewise. If you live in Canada, I would say, you had better leave because some group of First Nations [perhaps some of my relatives] owned your land at one time. Have you left yet? Surely you see the silliness of the giving back idea.

    You suffer from what cognitive therapists call dichotomous thinking. Computer programmers are especially prone to it. You see everything as all or nothing. Here in Canada we have negotiated agreements with the aboriginal people and made formal apologies for the horrible things our European ancestors did. The agreements include land, compensation, autonomy, improved status… It is too late for Jews to leave en masse. But is not too late for them to do something similar to what we in Canada are doing to compensate for the crimes of our ancestors. The Israeli Jews are so self-righteous and so arrogant and so selfish, I feel the need to give them a good kick in the pants. Once they realise what utter bastards they have been, they might be willing to negotiate in good faith. I expound on possible resolutions in my Israel essay.

  4. Why did the 600 million Arab brothers not take in their voluntary refugees who left when the state of Israel was declared? Look at how much land they have. Israel is the size of New Jersey for goodness sakes! And now the only true nation the Jews have ever owned and lived in is supposed to be given up??? Isn’t that slightly in the realm of the preposterous?

    Because that would be giving up. It would be like accepting Hitler’s successful invasion of Poland, kicking out the Poles and moving in Germans. Why should anyone have to leave their homeland because some whacko cult thinks it owns your land?

  5. What country other than Israel has ever given back land they gained in war. Well if you know of any, pray tell.

    The USA gave back Japan, Germany, Italy and Kosovo. Britain, Spain, Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands all gave up their colonies. Israel has surrendered some of the lands it gained in war.

    The state of Israel has abided by the terms of all supposed peace treaties In return for giving up land, they were to obtain peaceful neighbours. Did they get that? Never! The Palestinians never have lived up to their agreements but you defend them. What kind of sense of right and wrong would defend a people who lie to further their own ends and never abide by the peace treaties that they signed with Israel? And yet you defend them. I am sure many Palestinians would rather have peace but they elected the terrrorist Hamas organization to be their government. What does that say about their judgement? I didn’t look hard when I saw you were anti-Jewish, but some of the pictures I saw of poor defenseless children mangled by war were caused by the cowardly way Hamas and Hezbollah fight. They put their guns in residences and near hospitals, hoping to save their loss but care nothing about the lives of their brother Arabs that will inevitably be killed in the struggle. Did you include that?

    The AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) lobby ensures the USA gets the 100% pro-Israel message and the other side is completely suppressed. You have unquestioningly swallowed this view. The key statistic is this. For every Jew killed, 20 Palestinians are killed. Let me repeat that: For every Jew killed, 20 Palestinians are killed. There is no question, the Jews are the bad guys. They have driven the Palestinians to utter desperation such as suicide bombing in defence. The Jews started the fight with their illegal invasion. Jews have the money and the military. They lord over the Palestinians much the way whites lorded over blacks in South Africa. They deserve the same fate of flaming necklaces or worse. But the irony is, the Jews think of themselves as the innocent victims. Yes, they have suffered ghastly things, but far less than they deserved given their own atrocious behaviour.

  6. What would you do if 1000’s of rockets were shot into your home? Would you say, I must have deserved it! Okay I will give up my home? Have you left Canada yet? My First Nations brothers have a claim on your land!

    I would ask myself, what did I do to these people that got them so pissed off with me they were trying to kill me. When I find out, I had probably better stop doing it. I have a friend who lives in Israel. Israelis are as brainwashed as Americans. They seriously believe that Palestinians try to kill them because they are insane. The Jews are blissfully unaware of anything the Jews did to deserve those rockets. The apartheid keeps them ignorant.

  7. I must apologize for all the Jewish suicide bombers… Let me count… hmmm can’t remember any!

    For every Jew killed, 20 Palestinians are killed. On the other paw, where are the Palestinian helicopter pilots, bombers and bulldozer operators. They kill 20 to 1.

  8. I must apologize for the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) defending their homeland. They should just stand still and be blown to bits. I am sure that is what you would do. Would you not?

    It is not theirs. They took it illegally. Further, they keep stealing territory inch by inch encroaching on nominally Palestinian land. They don’t even follow their own rules of sharing.

  9. Have you ever heard of Pallywood? Do a search on YouTube or just through Google and if your mind is open at all you may start to learn the rest of the story

    AIPAC is the most organised of all the lobbies. They have congress and the senate in terror. Even networks kowtow to them. They keep anything about the plight of the Palestinians, or anything about the Palestinian point of view off the air. They are so effective that the USA spends most of its foreign aid on Israel, a country with a surplus, a country that hardly needs a handout. My essay intends to correct the imbalance. I feel no need to reiterate the anti-Palestinian arguments. They have been more than adequately expounded elsewhere.

  10. The ideas you agree with are your opinions. But do you believe they are fact? When you shoot down Christianity for example, what you actually do is claim that you know more than all the millions of minds through the ages who have picked Christianity as their religion. So are you smarter than all of them? If you think you are; What per cent of the world’s knowledge do you have? Is it less than 10%? Less than 5%? And would you even be humble enough to declare that you have less than 1% of the knowledge that exists in the world?
    I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
    ~ Stephen F. Roberts (born:1967 age:49)

    Yes. In high school, the principal told me I had a genius level IQ (Intelligence Quotient). To me, nearly everyone seems stubbornly dense. I am also smarter than they are because they were abused as children by being indoctrinated with bleeding nonsense for which there is zero evidence. A very young child unquestionly believes whatever it is told. It is defenceless against irrational beliefs. This conditioning usually lasts a lifetime because such hard-wired conditioning is impervious to rational argument. I was not so indoctrinated. I feel the same way about Zeus, Poseidon, Kali, Krishna … Christians are terrified to look at any other religion. I’m not. I’m thus more qualified to reject them too. Christianity is just another goofy cult. There is nothing special about it, other than a lot of people who live in the big country just south of me were indoctrinated into it from birth.

    However, my personal knowledge and opinions are unimportant. The key point is there is zero evidence to support the claims of Christianity and millions of established, irrefutable facts that contradict it. There is no need for complete knowledge with that overwhelming case against it. If debate is to be revived, the Christians need to come up with at least one fact to support their claims.

    We have heard talk enough. We have listened to all the drowsy, idealess, vapid sermons that we wish to hear. We have read your Bible and the works of your best minds. We have heard your prayers, your solemn groans and your reverential amens. All these amount to less than nothing. We want one fact. We beg at the doors of your churches for just one little fact. We pass our hats along your pews and under your pulpits and implore you for just one fact. We know all about your mouldy wonders and your stale miracles. We want a this year’s fact. We ask only one. Give us one fact for charity. Your miracles are too ancient. The witnesses have been dead for nearly two thousand years.
    ~ Robert Green Ingersoll (born:1833-08-11 died:1899-07-21 at age:65)

    I was lucky. In West Van High in the accelerated program, we were taught to think for ourselves even when it meant disagreeing with the teachers. Most people are not so fortunate. In school, they learn what sells, to regurgitate word-for-word what the teacher said. For people of below average IQ, it might be a reasonable strategy not to trust their own ability to reason and follow the herd consensus, but it is not for someone of high IQ who rightly should be guiding public opinion.

    An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
    ~ Mahatma Gandhi (born:1869-10-02 died:1948-01-30 at age:78)
  11. If you have agreed to my last statement, there is some hope for you. Reality is hard for alchoholics, wife-beaters and those that know better than everyone else, I guess there is hope for both of us if we can admit we have less than 1% of the total knowledge, right?
  12. Then what kind of mark would your teacher have given you with less than 1% of the world’s knowledge? Would it be high? Or low? So therefore unless you are a supreme being, you have just failed the world knowledge test with only 1% score. So perhaps in the other 99%, there is truth that you are ignorant of. Is that not possible? Perhaps 99% of the truth exists in that domain. In the domain you have no knowledge of, just opinions and ideas.
  13. Of course, if you assume you have greater knowledge than all the Christians who exist and who have ever existed, then you have declared yourself the supreme being. You have declared yourself God. Personally I wouldn’t go around bragging about it though.

    Balderdash. When you say you have not heard any evidence at all for the existence of Wotan, it means you think Wotan does not exist, not that you imagine yourself to be Wotan. You may be open to hearing evidence for the existence of Wotan, but nobody has yet presented any. Christians refuse to ever to present any evidence for their beliefs. In fact they make a virtue of believing the preposterous. They claim superiority by having the ability to believe the outlandish without evidence.

I hope that you see my intention is not to insult, not to flame, but to educate you.

That is not true. If it were, you would stick to arguing facts or statements on my website and leave your comments about me personally out of it.

We can all learn can we not? We can learn unless we feel we have superior knowledge to everyone else.

So I hope your mind is open, open to other ideas, not just your own. We all have a right to our beliefs and opinions. They belong to us. But when they are spewed out as fact, they do damage and they reflect on your intelligence. Only the truth can set you free as a famous man once said.

Wishing you a happy life in truth. pressing4truth.blogspot.ca

I get queasy when people use the word truth to advertise their thoughts. It usually is code for unsubstantiated religious dogma.

You are essentially a good person. Your motivation is the protect the Jews in Israel. My motivation is to protect the Palestinians. I hope we both get our wish. Given the Jews have so much the upper hand at this point, I can’t see resolution until their dirty laundry too is publicly exposed and in shame they negotiate in good faith. This is what happened in Canada that lead to the fair treatment of the aboriginals.

Israel: I cannot believe it, Part II : Charles Pedley : pressing4truth@gmail.com : 2008-05-07

Roedy, Roedy Roedy.

Cary Grant impersonations fall flat in print.

Instead of answering my points, you avoid them like a politician.

I answered all your points but two. I believe I spent more time preparing my response than you did your initial message. I answered you at greater length. I ignored points 11 and 12 because they were incoherent and rambling and I could not for the life of me guess what you were getting at. If you have specific questions I will be glad to answer them. I am not one to dodge controversy. You flatter yourself to think you made some point so cogent that I felt compelled to dodge it.

You are religious!

Can you believe it?

Yes you are. The Latin word, religas meaning bind to from which the word religion comes is talking about your belief system. Roedy, you obviously have a belief system, therefore you are religious! Don’t blame yourself now. It is simply human to have a belief system.

But that is not how dictionaries define the word. You are just playing games. If I redefine child molester as someone who was once a child I can call you a child molester. It means nothing.

If I make any more points I am sure you will answer them in the same manner avoidance and passing the buck. So again Good Luck and Have a Happy Life in truth. So don’t expect any more answers for you to feed to your blog. Resistance is futile! Only expect answers which you can actually email to me and allow a discussion of. Not going to happen I know.

You are quite correct I have no interest in exchanging private email with you. I engage with others publicly primarily to demonstrate to the world the faulty logic of those who promote evil, including war, exploitation, racism, homophobia, Kristianity, Zionism and environmental degradation.

Oh and just in case you don’t believe in truth, try walking across from the top of the CN tower to the Empire State Building in New York City and see if the truth of gravity works whether you Believe in it or not. [and your name doesn’t have to be Ripley!

That is a straw man argument. I said nothing of the kind. I said that Bush’s version of how the towers fell on 9/11 requires a violation of Newton’s law of gravity d = ½gt². The towers fell too fast to have been caused purely by gravitation. Since such violations simply don’t happen, Bush’s version must be wrong. It is a classical mathematical reductio ad absurdam argument, the style you were taught in grade 7 geometry. details.

Truth is truth.

Straw man arguments count as lies where you claim your opponent said something he did not, in order to ridicule him for a preposterous statement.

Your comments will duly be sent to our blog at http://pressing4truth.blogspot.ca

My website is copyrighted and doing so would be a violation of copyright, if you do that without first asking permission.


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