Whoever it was started calling the issue marriage equality instead of gay marriage or same sex marriage deserves a medal. It is very embarrassing to be against equality. It also makes clear we gays want the exact same familiar old thing as straights. We don’t want some weird new institution invented.
Gay marriage, aka same sex marriage, is the right of two men or two women to form a legal union with the same rights and responsibilities that a man and a woman have when they marry.
Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought of half so good… luckily, it’s not difficult.
~ Charlotte Whitton (born:1896-03-08 died:1975-01-25 at age:78) lesbian and Mayor of Ottawa.
By Hook or By Crook
The seriousness of Donald Trump appointing a climate change denier Scott Pruitt as head of the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) and anti-climate science extremist Steve Bannon as his chief strategist is far bigger than anyone lets themselves imagine. Trump is a far bigger threat to the planet that Hitler ever was. As a result of this appointment, climate change efforts are collapsing all over the earth. Conservatives like Donna Ambrose, head of the Canadian Conservative party, argues Canada would be at an economic disadvantage if the USA abandons efforts at curbing climate change, so we must immediately follow on their suicidal path. Anything else would be stupid. Nothing else matters but the next quarter’s economy.
Further, Donald said I love war, and that includes nuclear war. Three times he said he wants to use nuclear weapons against his rivals. He also said Let it be an arms race. He called for vastly increased spending on nukes. He said he wants them to proliferate. He is a modern day Dr. Strangelove. The man is stark raving mad. He wants to use nuclear weapons for intimidation and bargaining. This guy has the mentality of Attila the Hun, but with weapons Attila could only dream of.
Unless somebody assassinates him or he drops dead, I think our planet is done for. His unbelievably stupid supporters who did this to themselves believed using the wrong email server justified ending vertebrate life on planet earth. He has to be stopped by hook or by crook. Unfortunately, even with Donald himself out the way, VP (Vice President) Mike Pence, Scott Pruitt, Rick Perry and Steve Bannon are still a climate change deniers.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:69)
|What Are We Gays Asking For?||Propositions|
|What Gays Don’t Demand||A Conservative View|
|Advantages to Society of Recognising Gay Marriage||The Dallas Principles|
|Arguments Against Gay Marriage Rights||Books|
|The Law Around the World||Links|
Gays call for the right to form legally recognised unions. Such unions would give gays the same rights that straights have, namely:
Tyranny of the Majority
Modern democracies have constitutionally guaranteed freedom of religion. This has two purposes, to ensure the government does not interfere with your religious beliefs, and to stop other people from using the government to impose their religious beliefs on you by force. Christians are in the majority so manage to run roughshod over the religious constitutional rights of others and nobody says boo about this violation of law. They shamelessly use the government to impose their barbaric superstitions about gay people. They manage to institutionalise discrimination, particularly in banning gay marriage and banning sexual acts between people of the same sex.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:69)
Naïve Trump Supporters
I heard a few Trump supporters on the Cross-Country Checkup phone-in show. They all supported Trump because they believed he was going to force American corporations to bring jobs back to America. That would certainly be a great thing for the American working man, but I don’t think there is a snowball’s chance in hell Trump would ever do it. Why?
~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:69)
- Trump himself outsources manufacturing to Asia for all his companies, including his trademark ties. Trump is a famously selfish man. He is proud of it. He is not likely to do anything that hurts his own bottom line.
- When Trump was born, the doctor had to extract a tiny gold spoon from his rectum. Trump has lived in luxury all his life. He does not even know how to boil an egg. Servants wipe his bum. He does not associate with working people. He refers to them as losers. He has no sympathy for the working class. He was just dangling this carrot in front of them to get elected. He has no intention of carrying through.
- Trump routinely hires people to do work for him, then stiffs them. He even stiffed his own campaign workers. His pattern is to promise the working man, then not carry through.
- Is Trump on the side of the rich and corporations or the little guy? Look at his tax policy. He plans massive cuts, but only for the rich and corporations.
- The corrupt Republican house and senate, bought up to the hilt by the rich and corporations via the Citizens United Roberts Supreme Court decision, would never let it pass.
- Trump has brought insiders like Reince Priebus, the ultimate insider, the Chairman of the Republican National Committee into his cabinet. Other insiders on the short list include John Bolton, Newt Gingrich, Tim Pawlenty, Kelly Ayotte, Jon Kyl, Jeff Sessions (climate change denier), Chris Christie, Rudolph W. Giuliani, Jan Brewer, Sarah Palin, Sam Brownback, Dr. Ben Carson (climate change denier), Mike Huckabee (climate change denier), Bobby Jindal (climate change denier),, Rick Scott, Scott Pruitt (climate change denier), Rick Perry (climate change denier). These insiders have all been bought and work slavishly for the elites.
- Currently, the USA is signatory to all manner of treaties and trade agreements that would prohibit Trump from instituting the tariffs he plans to drag jobs home. He would have to unilaterally renege on all those agreements. At that point, US corporations would have to pay high tariffs to export to other countries. They would also have to pay higher wages. Many US companies would downsize or even go bankrupt. The effect on the US economy would be catastrophic.
Now that he is president, let us look at the promises he reneged on in the first few days:
- No more wall, and of course no more forcing Mexico to pay for it.
- No more banning gay marriage.
- No more reneging on all trade agreements, at least not for now.
- No more banning all Muslims from entering the country.
I hope this trend continues. It would be nice to abandon nuclear war, nuclear proliferation and doing nothing about climate change. It would be nice to leave Roe v Wade in place. It would be nice to get some new supreme courts justices with a history of honouring the constitution, rather than religious fanatics intent on imposing Christianity on everyone.
We are not demanding:
The Christian opposition to gay marriage is irrational. It does not in the least concern them. They are meddling where they have no right to interfere:
- It is not as though gays are even asking, much less demanding, that the churches perform marriage ceremonies.
- It is not as though gays are demanding Christians marry someone of the same sex.
- It is not as though gays are demanding Christians attend gay weddings or buy them wedding presents.
- It is not as though gays are demanding that florists, caterers, musicians, hotels, hall rentals, airlines, limo services, honeymoon vacation spots etc. accept the extra business.
Christians won’t be able to tell the difference, other than reduced social costs from promiscuity.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:69)
AIDS (Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome) is not just God’s punishment for homosexuals; it is God’s punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.Falwell’s assertion is a faith-based assertion. He has no evidence to back it up. Therefore this is a religious belief and by the constitution, he may not force his religious nuttiness on me. Because Christians are in a majority in the USA, they often forget this limitation on their right to bully others.
~ Jerry Falwell (born:1933-08-11 died:2007-05-15 at age:73)
The key advantages to straight society of permitting gay marriages are:
Hillary Clinton referred to Trump’s supporters as deplorables. His supporters reacted with indignation. I think the term fits perfectly. Why?
- Trump supporters condone Trump’s gang rape of Katie Johnson, a 13-year old virgin.
- Trump supporters condone Trump’s sexual assaults of 18 women. details.
- They condone Trump the climate change denier. Science says we have only a few years to take action. If we don’t, we will go extinct.
- They condone Trump violating the constitution to officially discriminate against a religion.
- They condone Trump violating the constitution to deny equal rights to gay people.
- They condone Trump violating the constitution to lock up his political rivals.
- They condone Trump conspiring with Russia to spy on the Clinton campaign.
- They condone Trump faking bankruptcies to bilk investors out of billions of dollars, arranged by his lawyers to be perfectly legal.
- They condone Trump refusing to rent his properties to black people.
- They condone Trump’s goal to give nukes to Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia, and his professed desire to deploy nuclear attacks to intimidate in negotiations.
- They condone Trump lying ¾ of the time according to Politifacts.
- They condone Trump mocking a disabled man.
- They condone Trump mocking the parents of an American soldier killed in Iraq.
What more evidence do you need Trump’s supporters have no morals or an instinct for self preservation? Trump is giving off far more clues to his future evil intentions than Hitler ever did. Trump’s supporters are turned on by Trump the bully. They are sick puppies.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:69)
Two Parents are Better than One
Science says two parents are better than one. It also says the genders of the parents do not matter. But even if mixed sex parents were better were better than same sex, how is denying some kids any parents supposed to make things better? Just because you ban same sex parents does not magically create replacement mixed sex ones.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:69)
|Gays can’t have children.||Neither can barren straight couples, couples using birth control or elderly couples. Do we deny them the rights of marriage as soon as they stop producing children? Further, gay couples can have children, either by artificial insemination, a surrogate partner, or eventually via genetic manipulation.|
|Jeannine Lebel, president of Real Women, argued that "Parliament can give special support and recognition to the heterosexual relationship in carrying out its critical task of raising children, which is of benefit to all society."||If the rights of marriage are based on child production, then you must be consistent and withdraw those rights from heterosexual couples who cannot or will not produce children. You cannot hand out special rights based on membership in some privileged class, irrespective of what one actually does. If special rights are to be based on child rearing, then, to be consistent, you must give them to any couples who are willing to raise children, including same sex couples. Clearly bigots like Jeannine Lebel are not willing to do that. Ms. Lebel is being disingenuous. This issue is a red herring. Gays also do things that are of benefit to all of society, so why should they be excluded from enjoying equal civil rights? Given the current problems with global overpopulation and the strain it puts on the environment, I find it odd to consider bringing even more children into the world a benefit. Should that questionably-valuable, potential of child-creation grant all heterosexuals special privilege before the law? Of course, not! (As I pointed out earlier, gays can create children almost as easily as straights.) A heterosexual woman who abuses her infant in the womb with drugs and alcohol and who later fails to provide food or shelter, is granted greater privilege before the law than a lesbian couple who wishes to adopt and properly care for that same child. Jeannine Lebel with her special rights for heterosexuals is spouting the same sort of elitist claptrap that privileged classes have always used to morally justify using the law to exclude others from enjoying those same privileges.|
|Gays are free to marry someone of the opposite sex. They are demanding a special right, to marry someone of the same sex.||This is playing with language. Logicians warn of the logical fallacies
introduced by self-referential terms such as opposite Restate it plainly enumerating all four cases.
|Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve||This is such a non-sequitur it is hard to even begin a rebuttal. The Bible condemns heterosexual sex hundreds of times more frequently than homosexual. The most commonly quoted anti-gay sections of the Bible are Lot (where the condemnation depends on a pun on the word know which appears only in the King James version and Leviticus (who also condemns to death everyone and everything for minor crimes like eating a lobster or not being sufficiently respectful to your father), or St. Paul (who pontificated that it was exceedingly wicked for women to wear hats in church). The Bible warns of the dangers of promiscuity. Why do the conservative forces want encourage promiscuity by banning legally recognised gay unions? Finally, this homophobia is a Christian superstition. What right have Christians to impose their religious superstitions on others? They have no more right than to demand that everyone pretend each week to eat a bloody piece of human flesh to commemorate the death of Jesus. According to the bible, Cain and Abel had sex with their mother. It that manadatory too by your logic?|
|It’s ain’t natural. Even a dog knows which sex to mate with. Gays are lower than the animals.||Other animal species such as dolphins, cattle, geese, swans, rats, budgerigars etc. form homosexual unions. It may be a natural population control device. The way the planetary population is ballooning way above the ecology’s ability to support it, we should be encouraging homosexual unions or any other unions that don’t produce children.|
|The Canadian Catholic Church position is: Keep the traditional definition of marriage. It has served society well and it will serve society in the future.||This argument works equally well for defending slavery or witch burning. Of course oppressing gays served the majority just fine in past. However, it did not serve the gay minority.|
|Born again Christian lawyer Doug Christie argues the slippery slope that if you allow gay marriage then you must also allow people to marry their pets and to marry children.||The slippery slope argument can also be used in reverse. If we do anything the fundamentalists like, e.g. allow voluntary school prayer, then we are headed on an unstoppable path back to reinstating slavery and witch burning. The slippery slope is one of the classic logical fallacies. Horses can’t give consent to marriage. They cannot fulfill the commitments. It is harmful to children to push them into sexual relationships. There is no popular will to allow people and horses to marry. There is certainly no popular will to legitimise pedophilia through marriage. Why then would we, as a democracy, inevitably embark on a path that almost no one supports?|
|Doug Christie argues that allowing same sex couples destroys the moral sanctity of marriage.||Same sex marriages have almost no effect on anyone but same sex couples. Bigots like Christie are unlikely to be invited to many same-sex weddings. He is a busy body meddling in the lives of others where there is almost no effect on his own life. Adultery and taking your partner for granted are what destroy heterosexual marriages, not same sex marriages between people you have never even met.|
|Conservative leader Stephen Harper lied to panic his bigot base.|
The Liberals have allowed a handful of tenured judges to create a situation where churches, synagogues, mosques and temples could be compelled to perform marriages that violate their own moral codes.The proposed law specifically precluded any church, synagogue or mosque from having to conduct any marriage which violates their belief system. There was never any push from anyone to make churches perform gay marriages. Same-sex marriage is a civil liberties, legal, equal-rights issue, not a religious one.
The Conservative party agenda is driven my religious fanatics and bigots whose view of gays is as scientifically accurate as the KKK (Klu Klux Klan) ’s view of blacks.
Homosexuality is a mental disorder that can be cured through counseling.Thankfully, at least at time of writing, 2007-02, the Conservatives are in a minority position and cannot impose their bigotry via law.
|What’s the point? Gays are 100% promiscuous. They never have sex with the same person twice.||There is some truth to that when you consider according to one study of gay
males: 11 percent of gay males are in a committed monogamous relationship. 33
percent of gay males are in a non-committed open relationship. 56 percent of
gay males are not in any relationship. This is partly caused by the wandering
eye of all males, straight and gay and partly because society, up to now,
has so strongly discouraged male couples and partly because of the esteem
problem gays have. However, the current laws also discriminate against
lesbians who are on average much more interested in long term relationships.
However, other studies such as the one at BuddyBuddy discovered the
following: about sexual agreements:
|If we make being gay respectable, all our kids will turn gay.||Sexuality is hard-wired into the brain long before puberty. You can’t change your gender preference just by an act of will. Gays can’t make themselves straight. Straights can’t make themselves gay. I read three books provided by Reverend Terry Winter on how Christ can reputedly convert gays into straights. The books made no such claims. They simply talked of how some bi-sexual men were gradually able to stop acting on their gay side desires. They put their wives through hell in the process. They were never able to change their preferences, just white-knuckle avoid acting them out.|
|The Bible says its our duty to kill gays. We should at least make their lives as miserable as possible.||How Christian! Jesus overturned much of that Old Testament nastiness with the first stone demonstration. Further, the Canadian constitution protects people based on discrimination based on gender or sexual preference. Canada is made up of people of many faiths. You can’t go forcing your brand of religion down other’s throats. There is a separation of church and state. Besides if you did everything the Bible told you, you would be obligated to dash out the brains of babies, adulterers, lobster eaters etc. Your daughter would be obligated to marry anyone who raped her. The Bible is a questionable source for equitable law.|
|Permitting gay marriage will destroy the institution for straight people, or to use George W. Bush’s phrase, Our nation must defend the sanctity of marriage People will start demanding to marry their poodles or their maple trees. No one will get married anymore.||Marriage is an institution known in all cultures in all times. It is not
about to go away so easily. I can’t imagine bride refusing her husband
on the grounds she read in the newspaper that someone else who just happened
to be male, shared a similar joy. Gay people fall seriously in love just like
straights. Just how does encouraging gays to lead promiscuous unmarried lives
strengthen family values? In medieval times marriage was possible between
members of the same sex. Clearly, it did not stop straight people from
marrying then. It would not now. Those highly opposed to gay marriages would
likely never be invited to one. Same sex marriage would have no effect on
their lives. The bigots just want to interfere and make like miserable for
gays on general principle. Religious bigots feel they have a divine right,
nay duty, to do this.
Religious bigots claim they feel persecuted at the thought of gays being allowed to participate in marriage. This is ridiculous. Gay marriage does not change their relationships or churches one iota. Their opposition is morally equivalent do denying black people the right to marry because of the perceived inferiority of blacks, unsupported by evidence.
The Puritans left England for America not because they couldn’t be Puritans in their mother country, but because they were not allowed to force others to become Puritans; in the New World, of course, they could and did.The constitution of Canada and the USA guarantees freedom of religion. My religion does not condemn homosexuals. Yours may. You may not enforce your religion on me and I cannot enforce my religion on you. My choice of marriage partner is none of your business. You don’t have a right to impose what I consider silly and irrelevant superstitions on my choice, blocking me from marrying the man I love. I don’t insist on meddling in your choice of partner, so please butt out of mine.
If you feel sullied just knowing gay marriage exists somewhere unseen, it is because you are harbouring notions of preposterous superiority to gays. If you want a stronger marriage, tend to your own relationship, rather than meddling in those of strangers.
|Marriage is a religious institution and God doesn’t want gays to marry.||In his article in the 1999-01-18 National Post, Brad Aisa made the following argument. Gays are not demanding a religious ceremony, but the secular rights of marriage that heterosexuals enjoy. Many straight people who marry are not religious at all. Atheists marry. Conversely, many gay people are religious and have undergone religious bonding ceremonies, ahead of legal sanction of their relationship. Many churches now sanctify gay partnerships and even more are considering it. The new law strengthens the right of a minister to choose the couples he or she will marry. Ministers have total freedom to discriminate.|
|If gays are allowed to marry, they will be able to adopt kids. They will molest them and make them turn queer.||The people most likely to molest children are straight males. Gay males and females are much less likely to molest children. Children raised by gays show the same likelihood of being straight or gay as children raised by hets. Sexual preference is something built-in, not something you copy from your parents. After all, straight daughters live with fathers who prefer women. They don’t usually copy them.|
Reasons To Support Gay Marriage
~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:69)
- There are thousands of children waiting for adoption, some with special needs. Gay marriage creates a whole new set of parents for these kids.
- Couples that otherwise would not have been married will now be joined to support each other for better or worse. If a partner supports a disabled partner, then the state does not have to.
- It is a simple matter of civil rights. It is wrong to deny someone civil rights just because some spiteful bigots do not like them. Everyone should be treated equally.
- It is wrong to allow a cult to imposes its nutty ideas about untouchability on non-believers. It just encourages them.
|Argentina||A law passed 2010-07-16 gives gay couples the right to marry.|
|Australia||Despite being a very secular country, Australia is still in the dark ages. They appearently dumped the Christianity but kept the homophobia.|
|Belgium||A law passed on 2003-06-01 gives gay couples inheritance rights and allows them to open joint bank accounts.|
|Brazil||A law passed on 2011-05 gives gay couples equal right, but called civil unions.|
|Britain||Since 2005 same-sex couples are allowed to enter into civil partnerships, a separate union which provides the legal consequences of marriage. However, marriage itself is reserved for mixed-sex couples. Since 2014-02-29 same sex couples can get married.|
|Canada||On 2009-09-16 Angus Reid did a poll on same sex
|China||China’s psychiatric community still considers homosexuality an illness. However, it is not illegal to be gay in China, but police harassment depends on local municipal or provincial policies, many unwritten, as is much of Chinese law.|
|Columbia||Military gays are now free to reveal their sexual orientation, live on base with a partner and be affectionate with each other away from work. Presumably civilian gays receive similarly enlightened treatment.|
|Denmark||In 1989 became the first country in the world to allow same-sex unions. In 2000, Denmark passed a law that gives homosexuals couples the right to obtain custody of children by a previous heterosexual marriage, however, gay couples still cannot adopt children. On 2012-06-07 full marriage rights were granted.|
|Iceland||Approved registered cohabitation in 1996, which gives gay couples many of the legal rights enjoyed by heterosexual married couples, but doesn’t allow adoption. Iceland allows same-sex couples to adopt each others kids and allows couples to adopt other kids as a couple. On 2011-06-11 marriage was redefined in a gender-neutral way.|
|Finland||Finland will give gay couples access to marriage-like registered partnerships. On 2000-11-29, the government accepted a proposal from the Justice Ministry, discussions will begin in Parliament December and an affirmative vote is expected in 2001. Most marriage rights and obligations are expected to be included except for access to adoption.|
|France||On 2013-04-23 gay marriage and gay adoption became legal. Bigots protested en masse and beat up gays. A challenge to overturn it was defeated on 2013-05-17.|
|Germany||The new center-left government intends to grant some legal status to same-sex couples, but not the right to adopt children|
|Hungary||Passed a law in 1996 granting gay couples inheritance rights, but law doesn’t allow adoptions. Hungary’s situation results from a legal case that applied the European Charter, more for political reasons [i.e. fear of not being accepted into the EU] than anything else and ruled in favour of same-sex relationships. The status of gays is probably broader than just pension rights.|
|Israel||Israel honours gay marriages in other countries, though there is no same sex marriage in the country.|
|Italy||A few cities have taken the symbolic step of creating a register for unmarried couples, but the measures carry no legal weight.|
|Japan||Japanese psychiatrists have now declared same-sex orientation is not a mental illness.|
|Mexico||On 2009-12-21 same sex unions and adoption were made legal. Stats must recognise same sex marriages from other states, but so far no states have permitted them.|
|Netherlands||New law took effect in 1999 permitting gay and lesbian couples to marry, giving them the same pension, social security and inheritance rights as other married couples. Dutch Cabinet approved a plan in 1999-11 to let homosexuals adopt children. The adoption bill places some restrictions on foreign adoptions. Gay couples, of either sex will have the option of being married or being domestic partners. The proposal became law in 2000-09. Gays will gain access to full marriage this January under the same laws that apply to opposite- sex couples. Couples who previously registered under the partnership law will be allowed to convert their unions to ordinary marriage.|
|New Zealand||On 2013-04-17 New Zealand became the 13th country to celebrate gay marriage. The sang the Maori Love Song in the legislature to honour the occasion. Maurice Williamson’s speech|
|Norway||Same sex marriage is legal and called Registered Domestic Partnership since 1993-08. It is virtually the same as Sweden and Denmark. It can be used for mental patient commitment. The Norwegian church does not allow church marriages, but it is very influential as it is a State Church and it supported the passage, though there is a rural backlash which has caused a church schism. Apparently as of 1997 there were 700 registered partnerships in a country of 4.3 million with 850,000 married. Registrations run about 100 per year. The legalization passed by only one vote, and a Norwegian representative named Anders Gasland came out just before the vote and his arguments about not being able to love was a help in the passage and a courageous thing for him to do. Adoption is still not available as is also the case with in vitro fertilization. The primary reason adoption is an issue in Europe seems to be the fear that if gays are allowed to adopt it will cause the cut off of international adoptions from countries with a different view who are currently relied on for a supply of babies. They psychiatric community in Norway has not considered same-sex attraction an illness for some time and that is not unusual in other European countries. Psychoanalysis in Europe is way behind.|
|Portugal||On 2010-01-08, Portugal granted marriage equality.|
|South Africa||On 2006-11-04, South Africa granted marriage equality. This is odd given the high degree of homophobia in the country. It is mainly the work of their supreme court.|
|Spain||On 2005-06-03 Spain granted marriage equality.|
|Sweden||Has allowed homosexuals to register as partners in a sort of civil marriage since 1995. The couples cannot adopt children or have them through artificial means. Church weddings are not permitted. On 2009-05-01, Sweden granted marriage equality.|
|Uruguay||In 2013-04 Uruguay granted marriage equality.|
On 2015-06-26 the Supreme Court of the USA voted 5-4 to make same sex marriage legal in all states. I wondered what excuses the dissenting justices could give. The only argument I have ever heard against gay marriage are tradition and that the Christian beliefs about gays should be imposed on everyone. Neither of these arguments would fly in the Supreme Court. Justice John (appointed by W.) Roberts claimed the constitution had nothing to say about whether people should be treated equally vis a vis marriage, so the court could not rule either way. You have to give him credit for deviousness.
On 2013-03-26 the US Supreme Court debated the legitimacy California’s law to ban gay marriage and the Defence Of Marriage Act. They are expected to punt in some way. 2011-06-24 New York narrowly voted to permit gay marriage. New York has no residency requirement, so it will be a likely destination for weddings. Niagara Falls will become a gay wedding destination too. The protests melted away as it became clear the bill would pass. On 2010-08-12 a CNN (Cable News Network) poll in the USA discovered that 52% of Americans support gay marriage and 46% oppose. On 2010-04-30 the Hawaii legislature gave gay couples the same rights and straight ones. However, the governor still has not signed the bill into law and appears to be stalling. On 2009-09-01 Vermont allowed same sex marriage. Unlike other states that were pushed into it by court order, Vermont enacted legislation. In 2009-09-01, Maine will vote on a gay-marriage referendum. On 2008-11-12 Connecticut permitted gay marriage. Massachusetts was the first state to allow same sex marriage on 2004-05-17. As of 2008-11-13 30 states deny gays the right to marry, even California. The cause is persecution by religious fundamentalists forcing their beliefs on others. On 2009-05-26 the California Supreme court upheld Proposition 8 and the right of bigots to deny civil rights to gays on religious grounds. The court allowed those already married to stay married. Someday this ruling will seem as backward as courts upholding slavery. On 2011-06-15 courts upheld a ruling against Prop 8, so at least for now, gay marriage is legal in California. States where there is marriage equality include: Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, plus Washington, D.C. and the Coquille Indian Tribe in Oregon. Issuance of marriage licenses to same-sex couples in New York is set to begin on 2011-07-24. Utah reverse its ban in 2013-12. Oklahoma reversed its ban on 2014-01-14. The USA is one of the most backward countries on the planet, behaving more like some Arab sheikdom than a modern democracy. Whacko fundamentalist Christian sects control the politics. They believe they have the right to impose their religious superstitions on others. Americans give lip service to their constitution, especially freedom of religion. On 2013-11-20 Illinois instituted same sex marriage. On 2013-12-02 Hawaii instituted same sex marriage.
The above table was based on postings to the <firstname.lastname@example.org> listserv by Timothy Ross Wilsonand George T.H. Fuller.
All Marriage is Good
Marriage is good for society. It reduces promiscuity. It encourages people to look after each other. It creates financial stability. It is the first line for health care. It encourages people to eat proper meals. It provides for survivors without putting a burden on the welfare system. It provides a stable environment to raise kids. It makes people feel relaxed, trusting, stable and cared for. The reasons it is good for women are the same ones it is good for men. For the same reasons it is good for straight people, it is also good for gay ones.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:69)
The USA is one of the most backward countries on the planet, up there with the Islamic theocracies, when it comes to accepting equality of gay marriage. This is odd given how it is so progressive otherwise.
The constitution is very clear. The US government is not permitted to enact religious laws. They can’t for example force to you pray to a specific god or donate to a specific church. They can’t enforce religious dress codes.
Yet when it comes to gay marriage, many Americans forget that the sole reason for banning gay marriage is religious superstition. Christian believe gays ideally should be killed, or at the very least persecuted only because God (they mean some verses in the old testament) told them to. Blocking gays from marrying is thus clearly unconstitutional. It is an attempt force Christian superstition on those who reject it. It is just as unconstitutional as trying to force Buddhists to make burnt offerings to Jehovah in public schools.
It does not matter if you consider the religious objection correct or not because by the US constitution, you may not enact such a law. You are free to fulminate on the wickedness of gays marrying, but you may not enact a religious-based law to persecute gays. If Christians want to persecute gays, they need a secular excuse for it to bypass the constitution.
The catch is, the people of the USA are so thoroughly soaked in Christian superstition, they don’t even notice they are violating their own constitution, not even many learned judges. Otherwise all these anti-gay religion-motivated laws would have been instantly overturned.
In Canada, the constitution guarantees the strict equality of men and women. Whatever men are permitted to do, so may women and vice versa. It therefore follows as a corollary than women may marry women because men can.
Benefits of Bigotry
The religious right gain nothing by denying civil rights to gay people, especially the right to marry. It will not affect them in the least. Gays won’t suddenly start attending their bigoted churches. Their churches have the legal right to refuse to perform any marriage for any even bigoted reason. Their motive is traditional spite. For hundreds of years, the Christian churches have used gay people as their official scapegoat. Just as they dropped using blacks as an official scapegoat, they should drop using gays. No one, not gays, not blacks, not Muslims, not Hispanics, not children… should have to put up with religion-excused abuse.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:69)
On 2012-11-06, Americans voted on various propositions. To approve gay marriage voters had to mark yes in most states but in at least one, they had to vote no. That was a deliberate attempt to befuddle the voter. A proposition should be clearly worded so the voter always marks yes to approve the proposed change and no to leave things the way they are.
Civil rights should not be determined by popularity and voting. The principles of liberty should be embedded in the constitution, inviolate from the whims of religious superstition or bigotry and adjudicated by sober reflection of the supreme court. The whole point of civil rights is to prevent the majority from bullying minorities. Civil rights would not be necessary if the minorities were popular. The very notion of empowering the majority to grant or deny rights on whim with a vote on the popularity of the affected minority is ludicrous.
I despise those who insist on playing parent to people a decade or two older than they are. This applies to gay marriage, marijuana use, right to die, abortion, forced religious indoctrination… The arguments against liberty are invariably fueled by religious superstition and fanaticism.
LEGIT (Lesbian and Gay Immigration Task force) is an organisation that helps same sex couples with immigration. It is possible, even now, to bring your lover from another country into Canada. It requires careful handling, but Legit has dozens of success stories. Contact Chris Morrissey (co-founder) or Deb LeRose. They are wonderful warm people. I highly recommend them.
People are often disturbed the way I lump all Christians as though they were a monolithic bigoted force opposing gay rights, in particular gay marriage. In my gay lib days, each day, for years, I received an average of 350 abusive phone calls and 3 death threats from Christians. Compassionate Christians never called. I have only met a handful of unspiteful Christians in my whole life. Christianity makes the majority of people it touches less compassionate, the opposite of its P.R. It makes them more judgemental and conceited. One research paper I read quantified it as embracing Christianity improved the behaviour of 1/3 of the people and deteriorated the behaviour of 2/3. Christianity is the source of nearly all the cruelty and spite against gays. It is core to Christian religious beliefs and church teaching. It blinds Christians allowing them to behave toward gays in ways they would not dream of treating a dog. They don’t see what they are doing as evil, criminal or even spiteful. Compassionate Christians have rejected the core teachings of their churches, so properly speaking are not Christian any more. Christian and the offshoot Muslims are the source of all the hatred against gays on the planet. This hatred is one of the defining characteristics of those two religions. It is completely hypocritical for someone to call themselves a Christian or a Muslim and deny it. It is as ridiculous as a Nazi trying to deny his part creating hatred for Jews. Pope Francis leads the charge with his claim gay marriage is the work of the devil. There is almost no other source for this hatred other than the Abrahamic trio of religions — Christianity, Islam and Judaism.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:69)
Trump kept calling Hillary crooked. He never specified her crime. All he would say is it had something to do with emails. He never offered any evidence. He just repeated the claim thousands of times. His idiot followers took up the chant lock her up, without realising (or caring) it was an utterly empty lie.
His followers were technopeasants, who had not even the first clue what an email server was. This made is easier for Donald to make it sound like using the wrong email server was worse than treason, even though the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) said it was a non-criminal simple error.
Trump’s lies about Hillary were just as empty as his lies about Obama’s birth certificate.
Even though Trump thoroughly disgraced himself with years of birther lies, for some reason his reputation for truth remained intact. He was able to get away with thousands of new lies, with nothing more than Hitlerian big-lie repetition. He never offered evidence for any of them.
Hillary did not want the campaign to degenerate to an endless discussion about the email server lie, so she said nothing. The problem was Trump supporters took this as a tacit admission of guilt. She should have had some surrogates challenge Donald to be specific and to put up or shut up with evidence, perhaps even threaten him with a libel suit (borrowing a page from his own playbook).
Many Trump voters held their noses to vote for him. They wanted an outsider who would run Washington with businesslike efficiency and sweep away the corruption. They were willing to put up with racism, rape, bigotry, mental deficiency… to get it.
Trump’s claim to be a white knight was nonsense. Trump himself bragged about how he bought politicians. The constitution does not permit a corporate dictator. It is a system of checks and balances. The president cannot fire people who disagree with him. Hillary failed to debunk this dictatorial image that Trump falsely created for himself. Trump is filling his cabinet with insiders. He is refusing to put his assets into a blind trust. He is laying the groundwork to be far more corrupt himself than Hillary or Bill ever were.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:69)
The state’s protracted denial of equal protection cannot be justified simply because such constitutional violation has become traditional.
~ Richard Kramer (born:1947-07-22 age:69), California Superior Court Judge
The following is a message I got from the Conservative MP (Member of Parliament) in the heart of Conservative anti-gay Canada. Jim Prentice is the MP for Calgary. To my surprise, he comes down on the side of gay marriage using an argument for personal liberty from John Stuart Mill. He will have a free vote in the commons.
2005-02-02, Calgary & Yesterday the Liberal government introduced their much-awaited marriage legislation.
The decision I have come to has been a difficult one. I have spoken to many hundreds in my riding of Calgary Centre-North. I have met with many community leaders including religious leaders from Calgary and representatives of the gay community. I have held an open Town Hall Meeting and I have done my best to understand the legal and theological issues that this decision has raised.
For me, the marriage question is one of individual liberty — of constitutional liberty.
Let’s be clear. I have been married to the same woman for 21 years, reflecting my own personal definition of what marriage is. It is also the definition of my own church, the Presbyterian Church of Canada.
It is not, however, the personal definition of many of our fellow citizens who are homosexual and who have sought the protection of the Charter to obtain civil marriage licences from the government.
Fundamentally the question is this: what right do we as a society have to refuse gay Canadians something that the rest of us are entitled to — namely, a civil marriage license.
Set aside the legal debate and ask the very simple question. What moral or political authority do we have to deny gay Canadians the issuance of a government marriage license?
The answer in my mind is clear. We have no such right at all because whether two people of the same sex marry and how and whether their gender enters into the relationship, is none of the government’s business, providing they do no harm to anyone else.
Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.I am a conservative and this is the philosophy that guides me in public life.
~ John Stuart Mill (born:1806-05-20 died:1873-05-08 at age:66)
Each of us has the right to fashion our own life to suit our own character without impediment from others, providing we harm no one else and providing we accept the consequences of our own decisions.
If we have the right, as a society, to prohibit homosexual Canadians from civil marriage because their idea of a marriage differs form ours, do we have an equal right to prohibit some Christians, Muslims, or Sikhs from preaching aspects of their faith, which are not shared by the majority of Canadians? By parity of reasoning, would we not have an equally valid entitlement to suppress the literature, political opinions or political association of those who hold views different than our own?
These are the modern liberties of our western society. They are the very liberties that underpin western society and they are owed to each of us equally and unconditionally.
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms ensures that all Canadians must be treated equally at law, including the right to marry. Equally the Charter protects the rights of religions to carry on their faith according to their own doctrine.
The vote for Conservatives is a free one. Stephen Harper has shown courage and leadership and his position has been very clear to Canadians. It is particularly disappointing that Mr. Martin did not have the strength of leadership to allow his entire Caucus to have a free vote on this issue.
I have come to the conclusion that I will stand in defence of the constitutional right of homosexual couples to civil marriage, even though their definition of marriage is not my own. I will be equally vigilant in defending religious marriage and religious freedom, for it is equally clear that neither the Christian community nor the other communities of faith can be compelled to accept or perform same sex marriages. Religious freedom must stand sacrosanct and religious marriage must stand as the exclusive preserve of our communities of faith.
I intend to vigorously support the Conservative Party amendments that would strengthen these protections of religious freedoms.
This decision has been a difficult one. My riding has a diversity of opinions on this question. I appreciate that my decision will not make everybody happy. I will be accountable.
In the final analysis, I have concluded that religious marriage is the authority of the church and that jurisdiction must be jealously guarded. But civil marriage, or governmental marriage, of two Canadians, must be available equally to all. Therefore, I will be voting in favour of this legislation and I will support Conservative Party amendments designed to protect religious freedoms.
The Dallas Principles is an organisation that sprang up in response to the California supreme court’s ruling on Proposition 8 that bigoted voters could take away the civil rights of gays for religious reasons. It has many people hopping mad. The following eight guiding principles underlie our call to action. In order to achieve full civil rights now, we avow:
I find it astounding that Christians are so willing to publicly expose themselves for the hateful, petty bigots they are. For example:
- They claim allowing gays to marry would tantamount to allowing dogs to marry. It would sully the institution. They are asserting gays are not human and as such do not deserve human rights. This is the old Nazi argument.
- They claim it is wrong to protect gay children, or children who are suspected may grow up to be gay, from being bullied. They assert children should be taught in school to bully gay children. They claim that all attempts to block such bullying show disrespect for Christian religious rights and should not be tolerated.
- Christian parents claim they should have the right to block a same-sex partner from visiting their terminally ill child in hospital. Christian parents should also have the right to exclude the same-sex partner from the funeral. If gays were permitted to marry, that would interfere with parental Christian duties to make gays miserable.
- Some go so far as to claim that tolerating the presence of a gay person is a guaranteed ticket to eternal torment. They just made that up.
There is no practical reason to block gay marriage. It is simply an expression of hate and spite, a way to put gays in a one-down position, much the way Christians used to put down blacks.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:69)
The Republicans in Texas have not only banned gay marriage, they are calling for making it a felony to perform a gay marriage and for making sodomy (a generic term for anything but the missionary position between heterosexuals) illegal. Know your enemies and do what it takes to defeat them at the polls.~ Roedy (born:1948-02-04 age:69)
|recommend book⇒A Legal Guide for Lesbian & Gay Couples (Legal Guide for Lesbian and Gay Couples, 11th Ed)|
|by||Hayden Curry, Denis Clifford, Frederick Hertz||978-0-87337-790-4||paperback|
|Covers American gay legal issues.|
|Greyed out stores probably do not have the item in stock. Try looking for it with a bookfinder.|
|recommend book⇒Same Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe|
|birth||1947-03-20 died:1994-12-24 at age:47||978-0-679-43228-9||hardcover|
|A scholarly work about the sanctification of homosexual relations in Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches during Medieval Europe.|
|Greyed out stores probably do not have the item in stock. Try looking for it with a bookfinder.|
We should not allow gays couples to divorce. Divorce should be between a man and a woman.
Stephen Colbert (born:1964-05-13 age:52)
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